The Pope's Speech is Not All About Violence in Islam
The recent controversy over Pope Benedict XVI’s comments on Islam in a major lecture at Regensburg University in Germany last week has once again showed that there is little religious commonality between the Christian and Muslim worlds, and for reasons mostly unstated in the mainstream media. There is no commonality between the two religions not because Islam is inherently a violent religion, and Christianity is a peaceful one. Instead, there is no commonality because the underlying basis of what religion actually is differs in both groups. The Pope, in his speech, illustrated that he believed that reason is something exogenous to religion (faith). He states in his speech that Christianity gained reason during its early days because of the beneficial input of Greek philosophical thought. With this premise, the Pope believes that the Christian religion has reason. And Islam, which did not experience a similar input, has no reason. The crux of his message was the since Christianity is a reasonable religion, then the increasingly secular Western world should embrace it within the purview of science, instead of rejecting Christianity as is happening in Europe.
Pope’s Views on Islam
The Pope, who is the highest religious leader in the Christian world, has decided to emphasize on the difference between Islam and Christianity by claiming that the roots of Christianity is reason while the roots of Islam is not. He has chosen to do this at this particular time for a reason. His quote from a Byzantine emperor, “Show me just what Muhammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached”, is yet another Western attempt to draw a link between acts of terrorism in the world today to Islam, the religion.
If the Pope were any other person, it would not have mattered so much. That he is the representative face of the Christian world; it forces one to pay close attention to what actually was said. The Pope would not be as bold as to state something that the Christian (or Western) world does not already believe in. Therefore, it makes absolutely no sense for the Muslim world to demand an apology from the Pope. Such a demand is demeaning to Muslims because it is akin to forcing someone to declare something aloud while retaining something else in the heart.
Muslims Should Not Ask for An Apology
The Muslim demand for an apology has resulted in a non-apology. The Pope has said: “At this time, I wish also to add that I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the
The Pope is a thinking man, and a man of his age and wisdom, does not lightly pick quotations for a speech randomly. The quotation was picked because it expressed the Pope’s own thoughts on the topic of his speech that day “Faith is Reason” – Christianity is a reasonable and non-violent religion and Islam is not.
Pope’s Speech is Not about Violence in Religion
But it is in my opinion that a careful reading of the Pope’s words shows that the difference between Christianity and Islam is NOT in its attitude towards violence (one only has to look at
The Pope also mentions in his speech that Islam views God as absolutely transcendent. He says: “His (God) will is not bound up with any of our categories, even that of rationality. Here Khoury quotes a work of the noted French Islamist R. Arnaldez, who points out that Ibn Hazn went so far as to state that God is not bound even by his own word, and that nothing would oblige him to reveal the truth to us. Were it God’s will, we would even have to practice idolatry”.
Reason is Endogenous to Islam
The Pope is absolutely right in his reading of Islam’s view of a transcendent God. God indeed cannot be bound by a man-made category, or construct. When the rationality we speak of is a man-made construct, then God cannot be bound up by it. Clearly, God’s will is final, and if he were to even will us to be idol worshippers, that would be the case. But clearly, that is not his will, as evidenced by the multitude of prophets he has sent mankind over time. But, if the rationality we speak of is divine, then that is God’s rationality that we speak of, not a man-made rationality
The Pope spends the rest of his speech on the problem of defining only that which “results from the interplay of mathematical and empirical elements” as scientific. He states that humanity would be reduced when religious and ethical questions are considered as having no place within the collective reason of science.
What he says on this is profound: “The subject then decides, on the basis of his experiences, what he considers tenable in matters of religion, and the subjective "conscience" becomes the sole arbiter of what is ethical. In this way, though, ethics and religion lose their power to create a community and become a completely personal matter. This is a dangerous state of affairs for humanity, as we see from the disturbing pathologies of religion and reason which necessarily erupt when reason is so reduced that questions of religion and ethics no longer concern it. Attempts to construct an ethic from the rules of evolution or from psychology and sociology, end up being simply inadequate”.
I would agree with him; he is absolutely right that man-made constructs cannot frame a reasonable, ethical and moral society. And Christianity, as he himself has defined, is a combination of Jesus’ teachings and man-made constructs and elements, such as the Greek thought. It is a modified, man-made religion.
And Muslims have a revealed religion that is all-encompassing; Islam does not require “genuine enlightenment” from the minds of men because it far surpasses what Man can come up with. There is a difference in a society that depends on the changeable man-made constructs for its ethical and moral foundational structure, and a society that has unchangeable transcendent principles as its foundational structure.
And therein, lays the difference between the two.

29 Comments:
Saleena's article shows how the Pope has unwittingly exposed the flaw in the Christian belief system; it does not originate from Jesus and it has been 'polluted' by Greek philosophy.
By
Anonymous, at September 23, 2006 2:45 PM
I think that muslims, generally over react. The danish thing and now this.
By
Anonymous, at September 26, 2006 1:17 AM
I beg to disagree with anonymous #1. Early Fathers believe Jesus Christ was both God and Man. He entrusted the keys of the church to the bishop of Rome to guide the church as it navigates history and promised the Holy Spirit will be there till the end of time. When the early Fathers learned reason from the Greeks, this is not equal to 'polluted' but 'learned' to navigate history better. Why? because without reason, many civilizations would be dead by the sword by now (negotitate instead of fight). The God of history is also the same Christian God who is transcendental to man's limited understanding. By the same principle of transcendence to which Islam subscribe as well, a religion that can learn reason is more capable, not polluted because something that is reasonable cannot pollute, otherwise it ceases to be reasonable. However, favoring non-reason, you can also argue that being transcendental, God can also be unreasonable. But this argument can only come from a mind that has concluded that the Transcendental God is unreasonable - and this choice of argument has nothing to do between being Christian or Islam.
Alpheus
By
Anonymous, at October 09, 2006 3:07 AM
Saleena, you said: "Clearly, God’s will is final, and if he were to even will us to be idol worshippers, that would be the case. But clearly, that is not his will, as evidenced by the multitude of prophets he has sent mankind over time. But, if the rationality we speak of is divine, then that is God’s rationality that we speak of, not a man-made rationality ". I completely agree with you. But this leads us to accept the fact that since the beginning of divine revelation(either Christian or Islam), God did not send any prophet to repudiate the validity of Christain-Greek Rationality. Therefore since He did not strike Christian-Greek rationality out of the face of the earthby sending another prophet, definitely that is not His will and therefore it can no longer be relegated to a mere "man-made construct" but part of God's will. Right?
In another paragraph you also said:
"And Muslims have a revealed religion that is all-encompassing; Islam does not require “genuine enlightenment” from the minds of men because it far surpasses what Man can come up with. There is a difference in a society that depends on the changeable man-made constructs for its ethical and moral foundational structure, and a society that has unchangeable transcendent principles as its foundational structure."
I tend to disagree with these premises on the following grounds:
1. Rationality, even if you label it a 'construct' is not changeable. When something is fundamentally rational from the beginning, it remains so for till the end of time. A thing that stands eternity cannot be simply a 'man-made construct'
2. The body of teachings of Christ as transmitted by the Bishop of Rome through the Early Fathers and through the Church is admittedly the only set of transcendent principles in the world that is still unchanged for the last 2000 years.
3. Even when Greek rationality became the medium of thinking in theology, it did not change the transcendent principles of the Catholic church for the past 2000 years.
I therefore invite you to study the 3 realities and tell me where the disconnect lies between year 1 and year 2000 as far as Catholic Christian principles are concerned.
Lastly, I doubt if there is such a thing as a pure "genuine enlightenment" that is 100% independent of human mind. The fact that God uses a prophet's mind means there will always be human element in any revelation. So between 2 prophets, who determines the exclusion of the other? Therein lies the inevitable need for a dialogue.
By
Anonymous, at October 09, 2006 4:19 AM
Response to Mr Anonymous (4):
The substance of your (two) response (s) is either inaccurate or flawed:
1. You indicate that Greek philosophy, which is man-made, is NOT a foundational part of Christianity as represented by the church. The pope's speech says the opposite. The birth of christianity since Paul is in essence a combination of human understanding of Jesus's teaching and an acceptance to some degree of Greek religious (philosophy) tradition of the time. This is now defended as accepting rationality is a good thing. Christianity as described since Paul's voyage to the Greek's cannot pretend to be a religion from God. A true religion from God does not need humans to alter it to make it valid and good. Human rationality is useful and needed only in the interpretation of the fundamental text, and should not be involved in the writing of any fundamental text as such text should come from God and conveyed in a manner of his choosing.
Christianity has made changes to the original text, and is therefore not a true religion from a God.
2. You indicate that Jesus is a man and a God. There are many things that are wrong with this. First show me the proof that Jesus (peace be upon him) said that he was a God. Furthermore, being god is being divine. And the concept of son-ship is in contradition with being divine.
3. There is only one God. This god is divine. Trinity is only a human concept. Anyone who thinks otherwise should show the proof to defend this concept. The proof must be conclusive, complete, and does not lead to internal contradiction. Such proof should be based on what Jesus said. And Jesus never taught such a concept. It is one of the things that have have born out of the mix of Greek's rationality and what Paul said was his understanding of faith. Paul may have watered down his understanding of the message to accomodate the Greeks of the time and their rationality (which by the way did not only prevent them from praying to objects or concepts as God's, but it possibly encouraged them to do so which indicates that human rationality can lead to human blindness).
4. Lastly, you indicate that if God thought that there was something wrong with the Christian Faith he would have corrected it. Yes you are right on this point. He is trying to correct it. In the chapter of "cow" in the Koran (please read it), one of the points is that the message of Jesus was distored and therefore God decided to send the Koran in a written form to explain this and to safeguard this text so that no human will do to this text what others have done to earlier messages.
5. So if you have an open mind (or heart) please read the koran (at least the "Cow" chapter) and you will understand that God did indeed send his message to correct human understanding of Jesus's message. It is just that the message did not reach you yet. Hopefully it is not too late for you to read it. Please do not confuse your non-readiness to read it for the non-existence of such a message from God. God did his job, and it is your turn to your job. Please just read and understand the message. You do not need to convert to Islam. The important thing is that you understand God what he has to tell you. He loves you and I.
By
Anonymous, at October 14, 2006 12:31 AM
bin yoghurt, you are a funny mama...
By
Anonymous, at October 16, 2006 5:26 AM
Bin Yoghurt's refutations on the writings of St. Paul can only be valid if he studied the Book. If not, his statements cannot be valid. If he did, then he read it wrongly because he is using the Sola Scriptura doctrine of Luther. Judgment is best rendered by one who lives by the doctrine being judged, not by one who does not.
Alpheus.
By
Anonymous, at October 18, 2006 11:19 AM
in greek mythology, alpheus is the river god. so alpheus, are you the god of the river? Are you?!!?!?
By
Anonymous, at October 19, 2006 11:57 AM
Alpheus,
Please indicate which Book you are refering to. The argument I make in relation to Christianity and Greek thoughts is corroborated in the text of the Pope. The Pope is the higher authority in understanding the Christian faith. Since the Pope confirms in his speech, and proves, that Christianity has incorporated the Greek thoughts, then why are you not agreeing with my point (assuming that you agree with the Pope). If you say that I do not have the facts right on this, you are also saying that the Pope does not have the facts right-- and I agree with the reasoning and arguments of the Pope on this.
The Pope speech not only says this, but also champions Christianity as the combination of two things: Faith and Reason. The "Reason" part, as the speech of the Pope tells us, started with the combination of Greek thoughts and the Faith as brought by early Christians (Paul) to the Greece.
Christianity started with two pillars: Faith (inspired by Paul's conveyence of what he said were Jesus's teaching) and Reason which contains Greek thought (who were pagans then).
The Pope does not question this categorization. In fact he views it as the most important element in the Church's christianity. And the Pope further argues that the "Reason" has been weakened over time, and he wants a reinforcement of the Reason pillar by arguing for a redefinition of the meaning of science.
The Christian faith of the Church is essentially a sort of religion developed by humans represented by the Church and in "partnership" with God, and in which God is a minority owne, and his words as sent to Jesus has been rewritten, and the "partnership" stakes of God are kept in there just to sell the message.
This reminds me of what is taught in Business schools. Sell the sizzle, not the stake. The steak here are the human constructs and ideology in the christian religion as represented by the Church, and the "sizzle" is the church saying this is a religion of God.
It is the steak that should matter, but not the sizzle. And the steak is not good, and should not be eaten. What pople want is the real stake. Read Koran. You will know that God sent the "real steak" via Jesus. That real steak was thrown away and a new stake was fabricated to meet the taste of the Greeks. Only the sizzle was kept for marketing reasons!
We do not need sizzle or changing the messsage from Good to sell it to the people. It is the substance that matters, not the marketing. Humans go to religion because they was to know the truth. So not need for a sizzle, and certainly the truth MUST NOT be changed. Koran proves how and why the truth was changed, and it is the reaon why Koran was sent: to correct the wrong. It is also the reaonso why Jesus came: to correct the wrong to the message that was sent to man via Moses.
By
Anonymous, at October 28, 2006 9:15 PM
Bin said: "The Christian faith of the Church is essentially a sort of religion developed by humans represented by the Church and in "partnership" with God, and in which God is a minority owne, and his words as sent to Jesus has been rewritten, and the "partnership" stakes of God are kept in there just to sell the message." This is not true interpretation. The historical fact is: Christ preached the Word of God and established the Christian Church. This just shows that judgment is best reserved to those who understand...
If you read the text, what the Pope said was: "At this point, as far as understanding of God and thus the concrete practice of religion is concerned, we are faced with an unavoidable dilemma. Is the conviction that acting unreasonably contradicts God's nature merely a Greek idea, or is it always and intrinsically true?But for Muslim teaching, God is absolutely transcendent. His will is not bound up with any of our categories, even that of rationality. Here Khoury quotes a work of the noted French Islamist R Arnaldez, who points out that Ibn Hazn went so far as to state that God is not bound even by his own word, and that nothing would oblige him to reveal the truth to us. Were it God's will, we would even have to practise idolatry." These are the facts of the issue. The questions are not yet answered by "reason".
Alpheus
By
Anonymous, at October 29, 2006 6:31 AM
This is not true interpretation. The historical fact is: Christ preached the Word of God and established the Christian Church. This just shows that judgment is best reserved to those who understand...
But Jesus did not establish a "church"; and no matter how much we argue, it still stands that Jesus's missionary far differs the church's missionary. So the above statement is factually incorrect.
Have you seen the PBS documentary called "From Jesus to Christ"?
By
Anonymous, at November 02, 2006 7:55 PM
Historical facts : Catholic Church was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church today. Cali does not know his history outside from those known to fundamentalist readings. No PBS documentary can change 2000 years of historical facts. It is now a fashion to dig up new theories and pretend to change history but these only serve to entertain.
Alpheus
By
Anonymous, at November 03, 2006 10:52 AM
Alpheus,
You are confusing the christian message with the institution. In the Pope's speech, the pope himself says that the message changed by including Greek thoughts/reason. So either you or the Pope is lying as what you say contradicts what the Pope says.
That is what happens what you make changes to the message from God (And Jesus is not a God. He is a messenger of God. And he is not the Son of God. If you think you are correct, prove to me when Jesus said he is a son of God in the human sonship way).
Convert to Islam and you be in peace. I assure you. It is the religion of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammed (Peace be upon all of them).
By
Anonymous, at November 03, 2006 6:42 PM
Bin's postings is symptomatic of those who cannot accept historical facts and reality. Cali even believes more a BBC show than established historical evidences. Where is reason here? At the end of the day, no one has answered the more practical question right on everyone's noses: Is violence the way to understand?
Peace!
Alpheus
By
Anonymous, at November 04, 2006 10:48 AM
..is symptomatic of those who cannot accept historical facts and reality.
To me, the above statement coming from you, is rather like the pot calling the kettle black.
In his posts, Bin does not pretend to be "rational", or accomodating. He tells it plainly as it is. You, on the other hand, pretend that you are more rational minded than the other. You pretend to be open-minded and accomodating in pursuit of the truth. The reality cannot be farther than the truth. You are no better than the Bin's of this world.
Tell me this, Alpheus, if you are an authority on the Christian faith.
Did Jesus tell his disciples during mass to hold cup a cup of wine, and drink to his blood? Did Jesus tell them to hold communion and eat bread, as symbol of eating his body?
Did Jesus tell his disciples that he was GOD? If you claim that he said he was the SON of God. Tell me where, Jesus said that the SON of God = GOD?
Cali - the Unbeliever.
By
Anonymous, at November 04, 2006 12:34 PM
Also, have you seen the PBS documentary? Because it is unscholarly to comment or judge something without first looking at the material with an objective eye.
I am inclined to think that you have not seen the show because your attitude smacks of a typical Christian fundamentalist.
By
Anonymous, at November 04, 2006 12:37 PM
Alpheus wrote: Where is reason here? At the end of the day, no one has answered the more practical question right on everyone's noses: Is violence the way to understand?
To understand what exactly? Often when someone resorts to violence, the route of dialogue (his willingness to understand) has already been closed off. No one uses violence as a means of understanding. It is quite the opposite. Violence is used to assert one's authority and strength, to impose one's will. In politics, we call this show of force, hard power.
To equate Islam as being inherently violent is something else altogether, and it was something the Pope contended with his speech. That Islam compells Muslims to ve violent, to spread the faith by sword is another fallacy.
Such assumptions are categorically false, and the Pope has been taken to task by Muslims all around.
If you have additional questions on that regard, I will be happy to try and answer them for you.
By
Anonymous, at November 05, 2006 4:50 PM
If my understanding is correct, Saleena agrees that violence is not the way to understand the world.
Therefore any statement that links violence to Islam is objectionable. Is this correct?
Alpheus
By
Anonymous, at November 05, 2006 8:13 PM
Peace!
Although one can sense mounting hatred in the earlier postings, I am told Islam has nothing to do with this. My understanding is hatred knows no reason. Therefore it does not fall within transcendental truth of a religion that is 'reason itself' as explained by Saleena. Anyways, Cali asked questions like "Did Jesus tell his disciples during mass to hold cup a cup of wine, and drink to his blood? Did Jesus tell them to hold communion and eat bread, as symbol of eating his body?
Did Jesus tell his disciples that he was GOD? If you claim that he said he was the SON of God. Tell me where, Jesus said that the SON of God = GOD?"
It shows he did not read the 4 Gospels written approximately between 45 AD and 150 AD. Now he is refuting historical evidence like it did not exist. Well, anyone can say gravity does not exist but still ends up falling into the ditch.
Alpheus
By
Anonymous, at November 06, 2006 10:38 AM
"It shows he did not read the 4 Gospels written approximately between 45 AD and 150 AD"
Did Jesus pen those books? And are the words in the books his words?
By
Anonymous, at November 06, 2006 11:08 AM
Cali asks: "Did Jesus pen those books? And are the words in the books his words?"
Well, did God write the laws of gravity in the books? If not then there must be no gravity, right? If Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote the 4 Gospels according to God's words, does it mean they are not true? Or if f=mv was not written by God, does it mean the formaula is wrong?
Peace!
Alpheus
By
Anonymous, at November 06, 2006 11:55 AM
That Cali believes Alpheus is a "fundamentalist" is like a hammer thinking that all problems must made of nails. For how can a fundamentalist study carefully the works of the Early Fathers and comparative religion and ancient and medieval history? By its very name, fundamentalism does not accept didactic and philosphical discovery as a means to understand truths, both revealed and historical. For they only listen to what they want to hear which must first agree with their chosen doctrines. In their limited understanding, there is no room for cognitive testing because they were taught that "everything is in there". Therein lies the difference in understanding. Curiously, the inability to integrate historical reality and apply reason in matters of faith suggests that fundamentalism rings true in some of the opposing posts here. I as I said earlier: faith without reason can lead to violence; reason without faith can lead to evil.
Peace!
Alpheus
By
Anonymous, at November 06, 2006 8:00 PM
Well, did God write the laws of gravity in the books?
well, something close to that anyway is in the Quran. Human mind does not surpass God's, but comes up with that which He already knows.
i see that the gospels is to christians like the hadiths is to muslims. both are transmitted by men and containing the actions and sayings of a prophet/son of god. yes?
By
Anonymous, at November 07, 2006 10:33 PM
Muslim in Texas is closer to understanding.
Peace!
Alpheus
By
Anonymous, at November 08, 2006 4:57 AM
Although one can sense mounting hatred in the earlier postings, I am told Islam has nothing to do with this
There is no hatred; only pointed questions. I have had the advantage of being born to Catholic parents, and I can see on sides where perhaps you can't.
By
Anonymous, at November 08, 2006 3:56 PM
Cali said: 'I have had the advantage of being born to Catholic parents, and I can see on sides where perhaps you can't".
I would like to assure Cali that I'm closer to Catholic knowledge than he is to Islam and to Islam than he is to Catholicism. I have no use for combative words outside of reason. Therein lies the difference.
Peace!
Alpheus
By
Anonymous, at November 09, 2006 3:14 AM
Alpheus wrote: I would like to assure Cali that I'm closer to Catholic knowledge than he is to Islam and to Islam than he is to Catholicism.
Vice versa.
My pointed questions were within reason, but perhaps not within your realm of reasoning.
By
Anonymous, at November 13, 2006 11:01 AM
Cali asked: "My pointed questions were within reason, but perhaps not within your realm of reasoning."
Yet Cali asked: "Tell me where, Jesus said that the SON of God = GOD?"
The answer is: Christ said "I and the Father are One" and "he who has seen the Son has seen the Father". But you can only apply the the reasoning if you read the Gospel.
Cali needs to prove that the Gospel is either not true or it did not exist.
Again, it needs reason.
Peace!
Alpheus
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